6l80 vs 10l80 transmission

Made of billet aluminum with included swivel -6 AN fittings with 3/8" barbs. Reactions: me32. However, if you look beyond the outside of the front covers of TMBX and JMBX and look inside the units, the similarity quickly disappears. or Best Offer . Or did the OE stamped steel cover and piston flex and twist to the point that the clutch surface was not flat, causing a premature friction failure? 6L80E Specs The 6L80 is a robust transmission and can handle a ton of power. The GM 10L80 Hydra-Matic transmission is one such hybrid component that General Motors jointly developed with, wait for it, the Ford Motor Company! The GM 10L80/90 transmissions began production in 2017, meaning that we're closing in on six years of this transmission being on the road. General 10-speed automatic with integral turbine clutch torque converter Ive not done the math on total surface area, but its likely the clutch would not last long engaging 450 hp. The same shift strategy that is used for the upshift may be applied during a downshift. Every modern GM vehicle has one of these sheets in its glove compartment. Fits 6L80, 6L90, 8L90, 10L80 units, TR6060, TR3160 manual units. 80 series is rated for 80 Newton's, 90 series is rated for 90 Newton's. In 2006, GM superceded Dexron III as the recommended fill with Dexron VI, which is backwards compatible with the earlier versions. Also, Im not sure if the trans will allow converter lockup at WOT. See how the ratios have swapped places? Find Dealer. Our transmission shop specializes in rear wheel drive Ford & GM high performance transmissions. GM 10L80: A new kind of pump noise. and GCVW of 21,000 lbs. They dealership gave Brian their opinion of what was making the noise. Diagnosis and correction of a max line pressure condition may become, With Hondas 10-speed front wheel drive transmission (see Figure 1, above) going into its fifth year on the roads, its feasible that one may show up in your shop for service. It is a heavy duty version of the 6L80 six speed automatic with a strengthened input gearset which has two additional pinion gears for six total and a strengthened output gearset that uses wider gears than the 6L80. A sectioned image of the 4L60-E TMBX and 6L80, 6L90 JMBX (Figure 3) shows the external profiles of the respective front covers are very similar. All I can find is that it is sealed from the rear and just needs a new tail housing but some say its got to be completely rebuilt from the inside. Now controlled by computers, the E series transmission allowed for a wide range of tuning options. The 6L80 would have big shoes to fill, with legendary predecessors like the TH400, 4L80E and 4L60E transmissions. A rebuilt 10L80 will only have a certain number of components that get replaced. Power Pack Only, for Power Hub | 195756-7754. For a type B code, the fault must be present after two consecutive ignition cycles, otherwise, the MIL will not illuminate (however, a pending code will store). These tight gear ratios not only allow for lightning fast upshifts and downshifts. As a transmission rebuilder, you know that flatness and rigidity of both apply and reaction surfaces are key to long clutch life in transmission clutch packs its the exact same in the torque converter. In fact, there are absolutely no cast-iron components, including the 10L80 stator support. In fact, the only 2017 model year vehicle that still comes with this transmission is the Chevrolet SS. In addition to developing innovative, quality repairs for transmissions, Sonnax is also the premier, full-line supplier of components to the torque converter remanufacturing industry. The transmission will bolt up but will not work since the TCM, Tehcm and BCM are application specific and cannot interchanged. It's a longitudinal transmission (that's what the L in 6 L 80E stands for). Just keep scanning it until you find the one you are looking for. lost energy) are reduced by only having two of the six clutches open at any time. Since 2003, Jeff has held various positions at Car Craft (including editor), has written books on small block Chevy performance, and even cultivated an impressive collection of 1965 and 1966 Chevelles. It probably wont do much for the elapsed time which is all that really matters. Remember, this is just a theory. Repeat Steps 3 through 9 six (6) additional times. The new 10-speed combo is 4.70 x 2.85 = 13.39:1. Its a longitudinal transmission (thats what the L in 6L80E stands for). This platform did not get Gen 4 (58x CKP) engines until 2008. Your email address will not be published. To be honest, we arent 100% sure of the real reason for JMBX cover and piston failure, but we do have a theory. The 6L90 has a beefier set of gears and many internal upgrades. It all comes down to the extra rigidity and flatness of the surfaces. Intermittent Fail Safe, Codes, Related Concerns and Solutions, The ZF 8-Speed Transmission Fluid and Filter Change, Tackling Clutch Failure in the GM 6L80/90, Change is in the Air Installing Updated Calibrations. Please help>> I have a 2013 GMC yukon. Thought's? Thats right, you can find a variation of this Ford GM 10-speed automatic transmission in the Ford Mustang GT and the Chevrolet Camaro ZL1! The Ford version is built at their Livonia transmission plant (Ford spent a reported $1.4 billion on retooling to build this transmission), and the GM version is built only a few miles away at their transmission factory in Romulus Michigan (GM spent a comparatively cheap $323 million retooling this factory). Then to create a new Second gear, the overdrive is engaged 2.97 x 0.75 = 2.23:1. The 6L80E went mostly into large vehicles with V8 motors. only) '72-'79, Small Block V8, Gen. Click Here to Email our Sales & Tech Staff 888-748-4655 Local: 330-965-7146 International: 001-330-652-5855 Mon-Fri 8am-5pm EST Sat-Sun: Closed Since these are straight cut gears, they will tend to be somewhat noisy. Thanks Jeff. At the current time, the only way to use a GM 6 or 8-speed automatic is to tie it in with a GM engine like the LS3 and use the engine controller to work with transmission. The Chevrolet Performance 6L80E trans comes with a set of wiring harness adapters and a flash drive that is used to configure the transmission to be used behind a GM LS engine in a rear wheel drive application. The drive gear and idler gear with the bearing are not sold separately. Can I assume my car has the General Motors GL80 with the 4.02 first gear? First, check for updated programming for the TCM strategy. With its 2017-2018 heralding, Ford has equipped 3 domestic models with the 10R80 transmission. Production Began 2017 The replacement solenoid band number must match the band number of the solenoid being replaced. As the 10 speeds continue to make their way into our shops, keep in mind the more you know about them, the better off youll be. If you have your heart set on a six-speed automatic to back your LS, consider TCI's 6X transmission. Brian at Tommy Boys Performance, however, has the opportunity to work with a local dealership assisting them when their workload gets heavy. Drivability concerns are confirmed, and the pan is chock full of debris. 6L80/90 - 8L90 Floor Tap Shifter Kit. Shift stabilization is achieved through these and similar strategies. Copyright 2012 There are too many differences between in communication protocols and renders the transmission nonfunctional. You might run into a lack of valve body repair options. The bottom line: The very thin (.020") woven carbon friction material cant survive the way the JMBX piston applies. If the warmer is not mounted to the transmission, refer to factory information to locate it. : 18-NA-355 Special Tools DT-52263 Transmission Fluid Exchange Kit: DT-52263-1 Block Assembly (includes fluid drain While the 6L80 is generally mechanically compatible with Chevrolet and GM Gen. III+ engines, due to its advanced control strategy, the 6L80 is functionally compatible only with Generation IV GM engines and their matched Engine Control Modules. Im not tuned ( not yet anyway), however, if I knew then what I know today, I probably would have went for the M6. A 2005 Ford F350 with the 6.0 liter diesel engine and 5R110W transmission has set a P0753 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Electrical Fault code and a P2700 Transmission Friction Element A - Apply Time Out Of Range code. DESIGNED FOR GEN V LT1 & LT4 ONLY. Joined Feb 11, 2007 Messages 11 Location . That way you get a longer service life, along with a 3-year/Unlimited Mile Nationwide Warranty.. Conveniently, the main transmission that the 6L80E is going to be confused for all have a different number of pan gasket bolts. Bolt and gasket inlcuded. Pre-Owned. Its extremely important to scan all modules for codes and address those codes first! As such, Sonnax has a good view of both sides of the pump, so we are intimately involved with engineering solutions to both trending transmission AND converter issues. For both types A and B, a freeze-frame record will be stored in memory if the MIL illuminates. 4L60E (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet/removable), 4L60E / 4L65E (w/ removable bellhousing) All LS1 Type, 4L80E 1991-Later (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet), 6L80E 2006-Later (w/ removable bellhousing), 6L90E 2006-Later (w/ removable bellhousing), Splines (output shaft)Pan Bolts (number of), Transmission Fluid Capacity (see also capacity of fluid in the converter here). TRU-STREET 10L90E TRANSMISSION W/ 1800 STALL LOCK UP CONVERTER. We are High Performance Transmission Builders It employs an even deeper First gear ratio of 4.02:1 with tighter gear splits but does not apply an overdrive for subsequent gears. Quick 6 Clutch-to-Clutch Transmission Control System Our top-of-the-line controller for 6R80 transmissions. if (yr!=2012) yr=d.getFullYear(); The complaint is usually associated with the vehicle sitting for a while (after it has been running at operating temperature). 6L80E / 6L90E 4-5-6 Clutch. 10R80 transmission swap? Transmission Pan Bolt Set Chevy 6L80E 6L90E 8L80E 8L90E 10L80E 10L90E 18pcs. This allows him to see what kinds of issues some of these transmissions come back to the dealer with while under warranty. So my suggestion is to not subject the lockup to that amount of abuse. Starting in 1996, many 4L60E transmissions employed a bolt-on bellhousing. The new Third gear in the TCI trans is 1.57:1, which is then overdriven to create Fourth gear which is 1.57 x 0.75 = 1.18:1 which is just 18 percent away from direct drive 1:1, which becomes Fifth gear. 700R4 / 4L60E with PATC close ratio gear set. That is RIDICULOUS, Cheryl. Do you thing the 10L80 can be beefed up using 10L90 parts? Recently, they received a 2021 GMC Yukon with a very unusual sound coming from the front of its 10L80 transmission. The Ford 10R80 is a new 10-speed, rear wheel drive transmission that's available in several models, beginning in 2017. Thx Related Articles Dana offers Spicer end yokes for Allison Transmissions ATI introduces six-speed Chevy transmission performance package Georend Transmission adds Ford 6R140 transmission pan kit. The transmission can also signal the engine to drop power during a shift if there's a possibility of clutch damage. This idler gear and ball bearing assembly is mounted to the stator shaft support housing. The 6L80E uses four under drive gears and two overdrive gears. Fluid pressure is maintained by an off-axis main pump that can vary the displacement depending on the load. The 6L80 denotes that the transmission is a 6-Speed, Longitudinally mounted, and for 8000 lbs. Shift the transmission to Drive. This seems to indicate that there will be other 10L80 transmissions that will be experiencing this same new kind of pump noise condition. Need to convert 10L80 rom 4wd to 2wd. The gearing spread is a very capable 6.04, with ratios in each gear as follows: First: 4.02, Second: 2.36, Third: 1.53, Fourth: 1.15, Fifth: .085, Sixth: 0.67, Reverse: 3.06. The 6L80 is a modular transmission, featuring removable bellhousings and tailhousings for interchangeability with the GM 90 Degree engines and other potential engines in the future. How quickly time passes by. Did they release much info about it on the trucks? - Critical wear areas and vacuum test locations: GM 10L and Ford 10R series. Legal/Privacy. Ive heard a little about thisdid they add two more gears to the transmission? The Sonnax forged covers and pistons are designed to be flat and will stay that way through the forces of converter welding, miles of driving and varying input torque from the engine. (You can unsubscribe anytime), ATRA 6L80E Torque Converter Power Raptor Full Size Non-Billet Number 88-6L80-1, now with Billet Cover Option. That is just the beginning. 97 it's a, I have a 2007 h3 hummer base model. Shift the transmission to Reverse. Will it be like the 5th gen's where the ss got the 6L80 and the more powerful ZL1 got the 6L90? If youre having problems with your 10L80 youre going to want the most economical solution. This is a normal and desired behavior. The subject is a rather common electrical fault that may occur on the PCS line pressure solenoid circuit, which results in max line pressure. TIPM Problems! Its valuable to know that the debris you are seeing in the pans of all of those 6L80 and 6L90 units is very often from converter failure. Then, because the six-speed is splitting ratios, the rpm drop between gears is less because TCI has turned this into a five-speed automatic with an overdrive. That certainly holds true for the 6L80, 6L90. Use it to verify the vehicle has a M30 4L60ENow, if the transmission is out of the vehicle (or if you dont trust a sticker), the 6L80E has an 18 bolt case. While converter failures are not uncommon with other transmission families, you are thinking that this is really becoming a pattern for the 6L80, 6L90. GM 6L80 and 6L90 units are now starting to reach their prime age in the repair cycle, and techs across the country are starting to see a consistent pattern of transmission failures with full-size 6L80, 6L90 vehicles. and can weigh up to ~230 lbs. Case 1 piece aluminum with integrated bell housing Nov 26 . What all needs to be done to change it from four-wheel-drive to 2 Wheel Dr? Maximum shift speed is 6500 RPM. 6L80/6L90/8L90/10L90 AN Transmission Cooler Manifold Our Price: $150.00 Out of stock We now offer a convenient AN trans cooler manifold solution for the 6L80, 6L90, 8L90, and 10L90 transmission. The 10R80 doesn't have a traditional "front" pump. This is a normal and desired behavior. But in the 6L80 JMBX, we started to look very closely at the converter itself to see if we could determine a root cause. Then it can upshift to one of its three overdrive gears for maximum fuel economy. If you have any questions that I may be able to help you with, drop a comment or contact me. Homepage: Garage: Wiki: Register: Community: Calendar: Today's Posts: Search: #Camaro6 . RATIOS 4.70, 2.99, 2.15, 1.80, 1.52, 1.28, 1.00, .85, .69, .64. Getrag 260 5-speed longitudinal manual made by Getrag. These concerns may be caused by a sticking TCC Regulator Valve (Figure 5). Gilbert, Engine torque estimate: Directly affects shift pressure control, TCC control, and transmission diagnostics. I believe the last digits of the model number are the power rating capabilities of the transmission. Fluid Type Mercon ULV ATF This is a completely new and different transmission compared to the 4L80E. Sonnax has a line of upgrade parts that address some of the 6L80 and 6L90 transmission weaknesses. The original first three gear ratios are in fact still the same as the TH-400. Interestingly enough, it was not long after this that Brian received another 10L80 with the same issue to resolve. It is an incredibly advanced transmission and has the technology to . Specialized manifold for 10L80,10L90, 8L90, 6L80, and 6L90 transmissions, allowing you to connect -6AN fittings to your cooler lines. Jeff Smith: The TCI six-speed automatic is indeed a revamped or upgraded 4L80E. Note: The mounting pad is usually a part of the extension housing, but the graphic shows it on the maine case. AM-DT-51190 threads into that port and connects to the J-45096 TransFlow. Hi Jeff, It can also be controlled under DSC, or Driver Shift Control, e.g., "tap shifting". Check out delicious pictures and movies from Peter Mrup, Dennis Andersson and Svein Pedersen. I am currently planning on a high compression LS2 and a progressive nitrous kit but before another 4L80E goes in there is a 6,8, or 10 speed not an option? Cadillac CT5 2021 MHS Automatic 10L80 Transmission 10-Speed 24294949 AWD 2427812. Most of the larger displacement applications will have an auxiliary oil-to-air cooler in the system as well. I work on other peoples vehicles for a living. Smith began writing for Car Craft magazine in 1979 and became editor in 1984. Genuine ICT Billet - Bolts Made in USA!!!! How do Sonnax components prevent the failure that plagues these units? Indirectly affects shift scheduling and TCC scheduling. Looking at the two different front covers from the OUTSIDE, they are very similar, with just a few minor differences (Figure 2). A typical scene thats now playing out in transmission shops across the country goes something like this: A late-model, full-size truck or SUV is dropped off to get the transmission checked out. In 2018 and later models with the transmission warmer mounted to the transmission, there can be a concern with coolant leaking under the vehicle. The General Motors Hydra-Matic 10-speed 10L80 automatic transmissions is a heavy duty (high performance) variant of the Hydra-Matic 10LXX transmission family. As a result, it became a popular choice despite sharing most of its internal components with its predecessor, the 700R4. 3-Bolt Adapter Flange Yoke Kit. Problem Owners may experience an ATF leak coming from under the vehicle. This transmission makes an excellent conversion transmission due to its adaptability into most Jeeps longer than CJ5s. As an example, combining the TCI Six-speeds 2.97:1 First gear with a 3.50:1 rear gear ratio is equal to a traditional TH-400 (or stock 4L80E) with a 4.19:1 rear gear. The traditional small-block six-bolt bellhousing pattern is the best and easiest way to identify a 4L60E style transmission if you find one at the swap meet for sale. Comparing the two cross sections, you also quickly see that the orientation of the spring dampers is different. (incl. *$3,245 does not include any Hard Part damage, Torque Converter or TCM/ECM tuning. For the 4L60-E TMBX, the pistons are .115" thick, and for the 6L80, 6L90 JMBX, the pistons are significantly thicker at .150". * WILL ALLOW USE . _____ HBM 2016 2SS A8 NPP Pray . The 6L80 was approved for use in these vehicles weighing up to 8600 lbs. Chevrolet Transmission Dimensions Dimension "C" is the distance from the bellhousing to the center of the transmission mounting pad. This wavy nature of the clutch surface is made worse with many miles of usage. Im thinking 3.73. Each clutch is controlled by a corresponding shift solenoid A-F. The 6L80 has surprised us power transmission aficionados with its wholesale adoption of new and very different technologies. Thats more than almost any other GM automatic transmission. 2nazty New Member. Most full-size trucks and SUVs with a 6L80, 6L90 use a JMBX full-size (300mm) style converter. The 6 speed takes a fair amount of trans tunnel work and my Holley Dominator ECU can't control it. None of the above categories describe me. From the workshop on ongoing projects and more, and where the new images are added afterwards. There are five main inputs the vehicle uses for transmission shift strategy, they are: The Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle must be performed after any of the following procedures are performed: Perform the adaptive learning drive cycle on a level road surface as follows: After the final step, place the vehicle in park and cycle the ignition key off. Specifications The 6L80 denotes that the transmission is a 6-Speed, Longitudinally mounted, and for 8000 lbs. The 6L80 Hydra-Matic transmission is a 6 speed automatic transmission manufactured by General Motors. The 6L80 in its transaxle version for the Corvette. Cart One needs to realize that the stamped covers are not all that flat to begin with. Accelerate from a stop with light throttle (15%), ensuring that upshifts 1st through 8th occur at engine speeds between 1300-1600 rpm. In 1987, he assumed the role of editor for Hot Rod magazine before returning to his first love of writing technical stories. Dimension "C" is the distance from the bellhousing to the center of the transmission mounting pad. Efficiency and performance are the two main goals behind the GM 10L80 transmission. Do you know does the aftermarket have a fix? The idler gear is what drives the pumps driven gear. Although the basic engineering is the same, the GM 10L80 and Ford 10R80 each have proprietary control software, along with a few other differences that are suited for each specific application. However, at light pedal or road load, single-step upshifts will occur. GM now also offers both 8- and 10-speed automatics. The exceptions to this would be the 2006-2014 Corvette, 2006 G8, 2010-2015 Camaro, and the Chevrolet SS. If concerns are still present, it may be necessary to service or replace the valve body assembly (Figure 6). Thanks to the optimal gear spacing, the engine RPM only drops approximately 20% when the 10L80 changes gear. How quickly time passes by. However some 2wd vans and HD truck versions had a, J Series Trucks & Wagons, (I6 Thats pretty much all thats to it. Now he serves as a regular contributor to OnAllCylinders. Copyright 2023 - Transmission Repair Cost Guide. The case is a cast aluminum alloy. The thicker JMBX piston cant conform to the cover (like it can in the 4L60-E TMBX), and at a commanded slip rate of approximately 50 RPMs in lockup, there is ultimately metal-to-metal contact that occurs between the front cover and the piston. It employs an even deeper First gear ratio of 4.02:1 with tighter gear splits but does not apply an overdrive for subsequent gears. 6R80E Chevy Transmission Kit ATI has the first true externally controlled, 6-speed transmission package for your Chevrolet powered vehicle! The 10L80 moniker is decoded. * DOES NOT INCLUDE A DRIVESHAFT OR CROSSMEMBER. The 6L80Es gear rations are as follows: There are two super easy ways to tell whether or not the transmission is a 6L80E. All previous GM automatic transmissions were virtually all based on hydraulic controls, and received increasing electrical elements as they modernized. Ford is currently using this unit in the following vehicles: 2017- Ford F-150 2018- Ford Mustang 2018- Ford Expedition 2018- Lincoln Navigator 2019- Ford Ranger 2019- Ford Everest Both 2wd and 4wd versions of the 6L80 can be used equally well, and there are no inherent advantages to either one once you have installed our adapter assembly. The GM 10L80/90 transmissions began production in 2017, meaning that were closing in on six years of this transmission being on the road. Will it be like the 5th gen's where the ss got the 6L80 and the more powerful ZL1 got the 6L90? Eighth 0.85 Sixth 1.28 Always appreciate the great exchanges. Your cooperation with this program is greatly appreciated. The 10L80 transmission is a 10-speed longitudinal automatic transmission that was designed to operate near the efficiency of a CVT while improving fuel economy in GM high-horsepower vehicles highlighted by the Camaro, Suburban, Tahoe, and Escalade. 2wd transmissions feature conical shaped tailhousings and an output yoke, which are replaced with a typically shorter 4wd style output shaft of varying lengths and spline counts, depending on the application.

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